Curse

Red Sonya · Nov 15, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

There is not going to come any large free content for Guildwars until GW 2 comes out. Replay the huge game that you have or leave. I think you QQ's should be a little more grateful for what you got already since this game has no fee. Most subscription games deliver much less quality wile demanding your cash every month. I didn't pay for anything GW related since GW:EN came out, but i played it almost every day for at least a few minutes.

I agree with you here as most of these whiners and QQer's feel they have some sort of ENTITLEMENT coming hahaha ain't that a crock for a no monthly fee game that they can pick up or put down anytime they like at no cost. I do so love the entitlement kiddies though cause they are what keep most of us in laughter on these pages. lol

Lagg · Nov 15, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltazar knight

bullshit they attract fresh blood? yes they do but more veterans wants to leave now gg Anet.

just make the stupid books retroactive!

Very few things could bring back the many, many "veterans" who stopped playing. None of the people I played with in 2005 still play actively. That's including me.

Making the books retroactive will give us oldies some free stuff, sure, but it's not going to make us come back to actually play the game. Not without fresh content or massive skill balances.

Not making the books retroactive keeps things as they are now, but rewards new players, who are still discovering the game (and will potentially buy more campaigns). That's actually a good thing, as it's going to put money in ArenaNet's purse for its ongoing development.

I'm beyond hoping for "The Promised Update" that will make everything right again. Well, no, I do hope for it. It's called Guild Wars 2.

trankle · Nov 15, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

That's why I can't see this like "new", tough, it's just a late attempt to fix a problem ignored for so long. Fine, then. Credit people for what they did, at least.

Sorry, I still don't think having to do something twice to get a reward some other people is getting for doing it only once could be fair.

1. What exactly was broken before, in terms of Guardian/Protector rewards? Certainly enough people felt the reward - a title - was enough that they performed the tasks.

2. Here's the problem inherent with demanding credit for what you've done in the past: Let's say (hypothetically) you've completed your Legendary Guardian title, meaning you would have a NM and a HM book, per chapter, to turn in retroactively. Now let's say I have helped out guildies and PUGs enough that I would have enough work done to claim five times the amount of books as you. Except that the game doesn't track how many times I've done missions, only that I've completed them.

Am I then to be rewarded the same as you? I put in much more work than you. Why should you be able to claim the same reward? Is it not just as fair to draw a line and say "from this point forward, rewards can be claimed"?

Abedeus · Nov 15, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Am I then to be rewarded the same as you? I put in much more work than you. Why should you be able to claim the same reward? Is it not just as fair to draw a line and say "from this point forward, rewards can be claimed"?

So wait. I've put up much, much, MUCH more work than a person doing the Factions campaign ONE time and not Masters all. And he's getting more rewards. So it is fair or not fair? You are contradicting yourself.

Fril Estelin · Nov 15, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So wait. I've put up much, much, MUCH more work than a person doing the Factions campaign ONE time and not Masters all. And he's getting more rewards. So it is fair or not fair? You are contradicting yourself.

No he's not. Re-read his message carefully. He's saying you can always find someone who will claim with proof that any given rule is unfair. So a line has to be drawn and that's what Anet did. To use Linsey's own words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey

The problem is that we have not tracked how many turn ins people have done or what they turned in for, so we can't even remotely guess how much you should be credited. Without that information I just don't think it's a good idea to randomly give out points.

This kind of thing is the nature of all online games and it's not an easy thing to compensate for. Keep in mind that it's a two way street, though. Players that have been playing a game for a long time get advantages as well as disadvantages by playing content that has been changed. For instance, after this update the HFFF won't be the easy thing that it has been for a long time. Many players have taken advantage of it for ez-mode farming but newer players won't have that benefit and will have to actually play through content to farm points. Does that mean that we should be making guesses at how much faction they could have earned along with the rest of the people trying to advance the title and give it to them? I think not.

I know that it can be a bummer to have changes made to the game that make activities that you had previously done more rewarding for people that do them after you. You are left sitting, thinking "man I already did that like a 100 times and NOW you decide to give me a cookie for it?" which is why we are making an effort to have as many of the changes we are making be retroactive. However some things just can't be reliably done so rather than potentially create more problems, a call has to be made. At this point, well over a year after that change was made, I don't think that it is a good idea to try to guess at who turned in faction, what they turned in for and how much. So we are not going to be crediting players for possible turn ins they made over a year ago. I'm sorry this isn't the answer you are looking for, but I do think that it is the right one. =/ - Image:User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 17:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Wrath of m0o · Nov 15, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Ok..so i just logged on my elementalist, that is 70% finished with Cantha for the first time. I get shiro's book and its empty, now i have to go back and replay all the missons that ive already completed, for 40k Faction, 40k exp and 4k gold. Just throw the books out and wish all the noobs good luck.
There are much better ways to obtain Faction, XP and Gold.

R_Frost · Nov 15, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

well i wont be doing the books anytime soon. i have 11 characters. of those characters, 7 are protector of tyria, 9 are protector of cantha, and 7 are protector of elona. only 2 of the 11 are doing anything related to HM. its a bad enough grind to do everything the first time, doing it again because thats the best way anet could come up with to keep us interested in the game another year or more = no way in hell. of the characters that havent become protectors in one of the 3 games, all of them are over 50% done so trying to do books on them wont happen either. the idea behind the update was nice for those just starting new characters or new to GW but in the end thanks for nothing.

Wrath of m0o · Nov 15, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Can anyone tell me why anyone would go back and complete a book?
I think ANET might have designed the book to make players go back and repaly missions in the hopes that we make groups and drag new players through the campaigns.

hallomik · Nov 16, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I think they should make the books retroactive.

Fril - The Lindsey quote doesn't apply to this argument as I read it. Anet can't award anything if they don't have the records. No argument there. In this case, they have the records. As was stated earlier, Anet made the original EotN books retroactive, which helped a lot of people get their titles, armor, and consumables sooner, thus reducing grind. That was a good thing in my book (pun not intended).

Making these books retroactive would have the same effect. Like most people who have completed the campaign, I have no need for gold - only the faction/reputation. The idea of making the (initial) cost of purchasing the blank pages equal to the gold reward sounds like a fair compromise to me.

There seem to be two arguments against it. The first one, stated by Anet, is the negative effect on the economy. Making the initial cost of purchasing pages equal to the reward solves this.

The second argument is basically, "don't be selfish or ungrateful." That's not really an argument in favor of the status quo. It's more just a criticism of the way people are expressing themselves - which I agree is largely deplorable. However, that shouldn't affect the decision. And for the record, I think the update is absolutely fantastic - with only one small fix required.

Red Sonya · Nov 16, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Excellent post and points Lindsey. Now surely we can put this thread to bed.

byteme! · Nov 16, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I hope someone reads this and understands

We have a Allegiance faction cap to keep everything in check. Allow me to explain. I'm speaking as a veteran of this game as well, having played ~42 months. I don't feel the veterans of this game got screwed at all. Alot of you failed to realized the big picture here. Anet raised the cap for faction and at the same time introduced a check list of tasks you were required to do to raise this cap.

Now being a veteran I have gone through this game. I've done the requirements necessary to raise my faction cap. I'm currently at 42,000 kurzick cap. Last night during the vanquishing bonus weekend I was able to vq Arbortsone and by doing so I was awarded somewhere around 37k worth of kurzick faction for my efforts.

A new player cannot benefit the way I did. Their cap is set at 10k. They cannot reap the full benefits like a veteran who has gone through the game can. A new player would have to do a multiple number of tasks before he can reap full rewards for vanquishing. Here is the list.

Maximum Faction Limits

There are now a number of ways to increase the maximum amount of Luxon/Kurzick Faction that you can hold at once. Speak to any [Faction Rewards] NPC to see what you have left to do to increase your faction cap.

* Completing the quest Befriending the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 10,000.
* Completing the quest Befriending the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 10,000.
* Completing Boreas Seabed, Gyala Hatchery, and Unwaking Waters will raise Luxon faction cap by 7000.
* Completing Arborstone, Eternal Grove, and Unwaking Waters will raise Kurzick faction cap by 7000.
* Defeating Kanaxai in The Deep will raise Luxon faction cap by 10,000.
* Defeating Urgoz in Urgoz’s Warren will raise Kurzick faction cap by 10,000.
* Scoring 100 points in Zos Shivros Channel will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Aurios Mines will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Altrumm Ruins will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Amatz Basin will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Winning a battle in Fort Aspenwood for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Fort Aspenwood for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Jade Quarry for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Jade Quarry for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000.
* Winning an Alliance Battle for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning an Alliance Battle for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction by 5000.
* Achieving rank 1 in the Luxon title track will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000. Each subsequent rank will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Achieving rank 1 in the Kurzick title track will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000. Each subsequent rank will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Your faction cap will automatically increase if you have already done the following things: either of the Befriending quests, the Luxon or Kurzick mission sets, and beaten Urgoz or Kanaxai after the addition of the Hall of Monuments to Guild Wars.

I have an advantage over new players. They are required to do more work for less pay until they can catch up. By catching up I mean they have to actually play the game. Also a new player starts from scratch with no knowledge, no skills, no heroes and no equipment among many other things. Some of these tasks you see in that list mean seem like nothing to a veteran who is fully equipped but a new player will take quite a considerable amount of time to accomplish them.

I think this decision by Anet was intentional. Why give veterans 2x-3x more faction then new players AND retroactive faction handbooks?

Just my .02
****I'm only talking about Cantha by the way****

DreamWind · Nov 16, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Why are people using Linsey's statement as proof that it is somehow fair? As far as I can tell she even ADMITS that it isn't fair in her statement, she just says Anet doesn't have the potential to make it fair (which is highly in question to me) and that it would affect the ecomony (which has been pointed out is a load of garbage).

Pwny Ride · Nov 16, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwny ride

a-net completely set themselves up with this one.

With the retroactivity of the original eotn books, they set a sort of precedent for the concept of the books.

And now, we have arguments against why the new books should be retroactive, and no real substantial arguments on why they shouldnt.

qft.

56789123

daze · Nov 16, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Would be nice for it to be retroactive, because there's no way I'm ever doing a book since I've already done Legendary Guardian....

This..

How hard would it be to put an NPC in the game that says "I see that you are guardian of Cantha. Let me update your book for you."

Abedeus · Nov 16, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

You have no records? Bullcrap, you do.

In titles.

Protector = 1 book, Guardian = two books.

Simple enough?

Quote:

I think this decision by Anet was intentional. Why give veterans 2x-3x more faction then new players AND retroactive faction handbooks?

And who's asking for 2x-3x more faction? Didn't notice.

Fril Estelin · Nov 16, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Fril - The Lindsey quote doesn't apply to this argument as I read it. Anet can't award anything if they don't have the records. No argument there.

Hi hallomik, nice to read from you. I may have misunderstood slightly Linsey's comment (btw, for a few people here, it's Linsey, not "Lindsey") but they do have part of these records in the form of the protector and guardian titles. These should get an equivalent reward of 1 book, NM or HM, and thus the so-called "veteran" players who are here shouting at how unfair the situation is may feel appeased.

/agree with you, it's a fantastic update.

Abedeus · Nov 16, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

These should get an equivalent reward of 1 book, NM or HM, and thus the so-called "veteran" players who are here shouting at how unfair the situation is may feel appeased.

I think most of the people (including me) will be more than glad with this.

pOmrAkkUn · Nov 16, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

I still don't care much if the books retroactive or not.

Veteran players can H/H any new books easy in 6-12 hours/book.
for me I only have problem with Eternal Grove HM. but i checked wiki and it said no need to do master reward to finish the book so it would be piece of cake to do that

Wrath of m0o · Nov 16, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I think most of the people (including me) will be more than glad with this.

Not me..I want..

1. 80 Full HM Books for each campaign.

2. 250 Stacks of Ecto.

3. The remainding ToT bags that Anet has left over from the Halloween event.

4. A req 9 Inscribable Crystaline Sword with "Cow King" inscribed on the blade.

5. A req 9 Voltaic Spear in everyones Storage so we can have Slavers Exile back.

6. A job at anet so i can have fist fights with the game developers in the break room.

7. A date with Taylor Swift.

8. An Everlating Cow Tonic complete with "mooo" sounds and animations.

Im suing Anet for emotional stress from this update and punitave damages, and untill my demands are met, im going to continue to play this game till i die, or the mothership comes for me.
Be forewarned Anet...My lawyer has GWAMM!

baltazar knight · Nov 16, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

this is just unfair... yes most of veternans aren't so active anymore including me but that doesn't mean that the new players should get free things were the veternans worked so hard for!